mysticsdream
04-29-2004, 01:07 PM
083244066
#5534By mysticsdream on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 1:07 pm
I guess there were 2 major revolutions in the Christian history. In about 325 AD The Constantine empire created a schism between the orthodox and what is now called the catholic church in a debate which focused on the nature of God and what it meant for Jesus to be human and divine. 1700 years later I am not sure this debate has been sorted. But the orthodox church retains this 'supernatural' belief system.
But sitting in the bath cogitating (thinking) I wondered if this might help Carlan as he wrestled with 'authority' and religious dimensions including his distrust of religious leaders.
In 1520 with the advent of the printing press technology brought the beginning of a shift in religion. Hitherto 'the scriptures' had only been in the hands of the clergy. Further they were 'educated' whereas most of the population were not.
With the advent of the printing press in Germany part of the world was sent into a spin. It was a German (Luther) who opposed the priestly power basis of the ecclesia (church). Hitherto salvation was seen to be in the hands of clergy (some of whom were corrupt)... with the power of their education and position they had a means to rule and dominate etc.
Post 1520 the church split into Catholic and Protestant. The Protestants basically encouraging every person to read the scriptures for themselves and make up their own minds... salvation was seen to be in their direct relationship with God. In theory the 'priestly' role was replaced by an educative role.. ie preaching was to open the significance of the Scriptures.. in practice people still gave great credence to their clergy, and were still heavily influenced by them etc.
But if it helps, it can be useful to see that suspicion of the powers of the clergy, culminating in a church schism, goes back 500 years.
Obviously the system may have changed, yet some of the problems continue... Even 500 years later as education has improved and for many the old dependenies have broken down ...(look at Al... who represents an individual weighs up what is of value who) chooses for himself.. not based on suspicion or fear, but on what makes sense.
There remains however that continuing tendency in many Christians to submit to 'dependency', and for some the authority of clergy, has been replaced by a fundamentalist belief in the Scriptures... (which is still able to be manipulated by clergy). In a way the problems have not been solved... even in an educated world.
And yet in a way 'the writing is on the wall'... the more educated we are, the more we think for ourselves and reach our own conclusions.. but also probably fragment without a system which unifies. Given this one would never endorse going back to being less educated. However one would hope that there is a way forward to find a unity. My experience is that its much harder to unite than to divide. So I am not sure what the future is... but its probably even more fragmentation and applying a bit of this and that.
In a way wycough's views are the most sane.. for him none of it makes sense.. why bother.. but for the rest of us maybe its still a muddle. Such seems the cost of being educated... you get to choose for yourself. http://thinkers.net/talk/clipart/happy.gif Blame (or credit it) on the printing press... we can each decide for ourselves. For me I still wrestle, always have always will. I don't necessarily assume that any guru or religious leader has the truth for me... I need to remember I am still on a journey to find my own truth..
so blessings as you all take your own journeys... and keep up the struggle...
#5534By mysticsdream on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 1:07 pm
I guess there were 2 major revolutions in the Christian history. In about 325 AD The Constantine empire created a schism between the orthodox and what is now called the catholic church in a debate which focused on the nature of God and what it meant for Jesus to be human and divine. 1700 years later I am not sure this debate has been sorted. But the orthodox church retains this 'supernatural' belief system.
But sitting in the bath cogitating (thinking) I wondered if this might help Carlan as he wrestled with 'authority' and religious dimensions including his distrust of religious leaders.
In 1520 with the advent of the printing press technology brought the beginning of a shift in religion. Hitherto 'the scriptures' had only been in the hands of the clergy. Further they were 'educated' whereas most of the population were not.
With the advent of the printing press in Germany part of the world was sent into a spin. It was a German (Luther) who opposed the priestly power basis of the ecclesia (church). Hitherto salvation was seen to be in the hands of clergy (some of whom were corrupt)... with the power of their education and position they had a means to rule and dominate etc.
Post 1520 the church split into Catholic and Protestant. The Protestants basically encouraging every person to read the scriptures for themselves and make up their own minds... salvation was seen to be in their direct relationship with God. In theory the 'priestly' role was replaced by an educative role.. ie preaching was to open the significance of the Scriptures.. in practice people still gave great credence to their clergy, and were still heavily influenced by them etc.
But if it helps, it can be useful to see that suspicion of the powers of the clergy, culminating in a church schism, goes back 500 years.
Obviously the system may have changed, yet some of the problems continue... Even 500 years later as education has improved and for many the old dependenies have broken down ...(look at Al... who represents an individual weighs up what is of value who) chooses for himself.. not based on suspicion or fear, but on what makes sense.
There remains however that continuing tendency in many Christians to submit to 'dependency', and for some the authority of clergy, has been replaced by a fundamentalist belief in the Scriptures... (which is still able to be manipulated by clergy). In a way the problems have not been solved... even in an educated world.
And yet in a way 'the writing is on the wall'... the more educated we are, the more we think for ourselves and reach our own conclusions.. but also probably fragment without a system which unifies. Given this one would never endorse going back to being less educated. However one would hope that there is a way forward to find a unity. My experience is that its much harder to unite than to divide. So I am not sure what the future is... but its probably even more fragmentation and applying a bit of this and that.
In a way wycough's views are the most sane.. for him none of it makes sense.. why bother.. but for the rest of us maybe its still a muddle. Such seems the cost of being educated... you get to choose for yourself. http://thinkers.net/talk/clipart/happy.gif Blame (or credit it) on the printing press... we can each decide for ourselves. For me I still wrestle, always have always will. I don't necessarily assume that any guru or religious leader has the truth for me... I need to remember I am still on a journey to find my own truth..
so blessings as you all take your own journeys... and keep up the struggle...